The Rimba Interview

Interview with Jane Griffiths and Emma Lokuciejewski

Jane Griffiths

Jane: Can you tell us a little about your background, and what inspired you to write The Rimba? (You can also say why it is called the Rimba - I don’tmean to mention me, but what does Rimba mean and why that is fitting.)

I am a retired Head of English, and have lived in Cornwall for over 40 years.  I first became aware of the destructive force of palm oil in 2018, after watching the Rang Tan Greenpeace campaign. I was horrified and was determined to do something to mitigate the damage caused by changing my shopping choices.  I quickly learned, however, that to avoid palm oil altogether was not the best solution; choosing sustainable palm oil was a much better option.

It led to me doing a lot more than just changing my buying habits:  After a lot  of research, I gave talks at my local schoosl, met with managers at Newquay Zoo, and set about helping Newquay to become a sustainable palm oil town. It became something that I felt passionate about.

At some point between 2018 and 2019 I was listening to a radio programme about deforestation and The Lorax was referenced.  I had never read the book, but bought a copy and realised how much it echoed what was happening in SE Asia rainforests.   It dealt with the overriding message of the dangers of greed and destruction.

It got me thinking and I used it as a starting point for The Rimba. 

The name is deliberately ambiguous.  Rimba is Indonesian for jungle, forest and wilderness. It has connotations of natural beauty and rich biodiversity. So the book is really about that, BUT, it is also the name of the central mystical and spiritual orangutan ‘mother’ who is a rainforest guardian. I deliberately wanted  a female central character.  She represents Mother Nature and is a strong, but gentle creature who is central to bringing about change.

Emma Lokuciejewski

 Emma: And can you also tell us about your background, and why you decided to illustrate the book?

I am an Orangutan scientist, currently studying the behaviour of wild orangutans on Sumatra, investigating how the juvenile orangutans learn and develop after leaving their mother. I have previously worked with wild orangutans as well as rescued and reintroduced orangutans on Borneo. I am also a digital illustrator, combining my passions of art and science is something I have always strived for. When I had the opportunity to collaborate with Jane on The Rimba, I was excited to create something with so much meaning to me.

My scientific work isn’t always accessible to the general public, so creating an educational children’s book allows us to easily get our message across of conservational and sustainability.

Jane: The rhyming pattern and general theme of the book seems reminscent of the children’s book by Dr Seuss called the Lorax. Was that intentional, and why?

There are a few places where the words or lines may be reminiscent of the The Lorax, but I feel the Rimba is more poignant and shocking in many ways.  The Lorax is perhaps more whimsical -  its rhyming cadence is different and more light hearted.  I wanted The Rimba to be darker - and Emma’s beautiful pictures represent this - whereas The Lorax shows us an imaginary future, The Rimba is real.

But, both books offer hope.  Both tell us to think about what we can do and indeed are able to do.

Jane: Before the story begins, you quote the late, great Dr Jane Goodall: “The least I can do is speak out for those who cannot speak for themselves.” Why do you feel this is a fitting quote for the book?

There were a couple of choices from Jane Goodall that we considered, one was “what you do makes a difference and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make”, but in the end we felt the one we chose to be the most fitting.  Like The Lorax, the Rimba, speaks for the trees but she also speaks for the creatures whatever their size. The Rimba has the voice of reason and speaks for those who cannot; for those who have no tongues.  Jane Goodall did that too, and the book is urging us all to do the same.

Emma: The first glimpse that we have of The Rimba appears to be an somewhat angelic depiction of an orangutan. Why did you choose such a rendering?

The Rimba is the spirit of the trees and a guardian of the forest. With such an honorable role, she also needed to appear ethereal and spiritual. The glow emanating from her depicts her soul and spirit flowing out among the forest, lighting up everything she passes by.

Jane: When we first hear the voice of Rimba, she says “I am Rimba, I’m the soul of the trees

I speak through the leaves and I speak through the breeze.” Later she appears to us, and she is a female orangutan. Is she a spirit? Is she an orangutan? (essentially aiming for why an orangutan was chosen to be the wise voice/spirit of the forest kind of answer)

Perhaps orangutans, more than any other rainforest creature appeal to us more because we are closest to them genetically? I realise this is a generalisation, but for me it was because they are such gentle creatures who have suffered terrible losses - they are critically endangered. Their eyes are knowing and seem to hold us when we look at them. They also spend almost their entire lives in the trees: the rainforest is their home so it seemed fitting my story about rainforest destruction, should feature a wise orangutan as its protagonist.  And I love them.

Emma: How do the colours chosen for the illustrations reflect the story (why did you choose the colours  cool/warm dark/bright?)

I chose the darker blues and turquoise colours at the start to feel calm and spiritual, and also to make the orange of the Orangutan appear bolder and brighter. The bold colourful pages depicting all of the other animals who inhabit the forest is to show the beauty and biodiversity that the forest holds. Once Rimba passes through the palm oil plantations and the fires begin, the colour is drained, just like the life of the forest. Grey and darker colours are more prominent, allowing the words to take precedence rather than the illustration. Finally, when Rimba educates us on the importance of sustainability and collaboration, the colour gradually returns, symbolizing that the forest too has started to regenerate life.

Jane: Part of the story feels very bleak indeed, but it ends on a positive note. Is it right to feel positive about the situation facing rainforests and their inhabitants?

Difficult question.  I believe we have to have hope - because if we don’t, what are we fighting for? Both Sir David Attenborough and Jane Goodall constantly give/gave us hope, even in the darkest and direst of times.  And the book is aimed at children as well as adults.  They are our future - we have to encourage them to care and to be optimistic about the future.

Emma: which is your favourite illustration, and why?

My favourite illustration is the close up of Rimba’s face with the reflection in her eyes of the machines clearing the forest. The shiney reflection allows the readers to see there are tears in her eyes, and we can see exactly what she is seeing, and feel what she is feeling. Orangutans are well known to have eyes that show their thoughts, intelligence and emotions, and this is what I tried to capture through this illustration.

Jane: which is your favourite page, and why?

That is also a difficult one to answer, because there are different favourite pages for different reasons.  And Emma’s beautiful images add so much too.  While I was writing it - certain sections just flew off the pen.  So I like the rainforest as its depicted before its destroyed - its richness of life and vibrancy, but I also like the section where the Rimba has forced the men to see their destruction: the alliteration, the repetition and the end stopped line where the men feel very small - it’s the turning point in the story.

Emma and Jane: You decided to give all profits from this book to a selection of orangutan charities. Why was that?

There was never any doubt.  The book is about making change and saving rainforests and wildlife.  It seemed like a natural progression once the book was published.  Both Emma and I were in total agreement about this.  I really hope the the book goes on to both raise awareness but also to help a future generation of orangutans to survive in their natural habitat.

(Emma) The book was always to raise awareness firstly, and any profits make from the book were for raising funds. I hope the book can be passed on to other children once read, and continue to educate the next generation of conservationists.

Emma and Jane: what do you each (or collectively) think the main message of the book is?

Firstly, making people aware of the awful destruction that palm oil plantations have caused both in terms of forest loss as well as wildlife, but also to educate.  So many people have no idea that every one of us either consumes or uses palm oil every day.  The story only touches on this really, but it is a starting point for further conversations.  Above all, it has to be a hopeful book.  Children nowadays are faced with real fears about deforestation and climate change and their futures face uncertainty. This is a story that tells them they can make changes - they can do something about what is happening - however small.  Above all, I hope that it is about making them care.

(Emma) The main message of the book is about working together to create sustainability. It shows that we are all connected, and we all have a role in the forest, whether that is direct or indirect, and we therefore have a responsibility to ensure its protection. Sustainability isn’t an end product, it is a process, which changes with the more information we have. Its still not quite up to the standard we want, but that is why we must work together to improve it. Palm oil isn’t bad, but the processes to make it can be! We must ensure that growing and farming are sustainable for the forest and the people involved.

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